Hi MAC, hope you folks are well. I was curious if you can provide clarification and potentially rational to the “Mandatory Patch Point” for Medical Cardiac Arrests. Although I understand calling for termination or potentially further direction, I am curious if we have to BHP patch if the attending Paramedic feels the Pt in cardiac arrest [that fits criteria for TOR] would benefit from transportation for any variety of situations (age, geo. location, ect.). It seems it would be counter-intuitive to spend the time calling an MD to tell them we feel transport would be beneficial for a Pt (especially if ready to transport) instead of initiating time critical transport + our active resuscitation efforts. Would a BHP ever say no, do not transport this Pt, regardless of potential ED Tx benefit? I recognize this is an odd question that is a rarity, but I’ve found myself in this position more than once and am wondering how to efficiently tackle these situations in the future without a potential protocol violation. Cheers MAC.

If a combined crew configuration of PCP and PCP expanded scope (IV) attend a VSA that will be transported and it is the PCP’s turn to attend, can the PCP attend it en route to hospital or should the PCP expanded scope have to take over in case of a ROSC with need of bolus?

The question I have is about organ donation/transplant. Just had a young person traumatic VSA in which his core body was still intact I just got thinking afterwards that I should I have called base hospital to see if the family would like to donate his organs. Just thought that pt had been young and healthy. Was wondering the proper way to go about it? How long the organs can be without blood flow. How far from London or where do we take the body? Who do you contact. I know the scene is overwhelming and was one of the last things thinking about.

If we have an asthmatic patient that is refusing transport to the hospital after administering salbutamol, should we still proceed with dexamethasone administration?

My question is in regards to our traumatic TOR protocol – more specifically, why is a trauma TOR ALWAYS contraindicated for penetrating trauma to the torso or head/neck when the LTC is <30mins away? I am looking for clarification and rationale on this because this contraindication seems to be all-encompassing without taking other clinical factors into account (ie. extent of injuries, pts age, complications of resuscitation, presenting rhythm, medical hx, etc.) For example: I attended a traumatic VSA, <30mins from the LTH. Pt was 90yo with a suspected self inflicted gsw to the head. In this incident there was no definitive time of arrest and the pts presenting rhythm was asystole. Entry wound identified to the head, no exit wound and no gross distortion of anatomy (did not meet any obviously deceased standards). The initial crew was unable to secure/maintain the pts airway due to bleeding in the pts airway - indicating that there was no oxygenation/ventilation during the initial resuscitative efforts. I may be wrong but I believe that this pt arrested due to anatomical injuries rather than exsanguination. This pt sustained grievous injury not conducive to life for which there is no definitive tx. This pt is an extreme case; pt was elderly, on blood thinners, sustained irreversible injury, asystolic arrest with complications during care. However, none of these clinical factors are applied to our trauma TOR. I am reaching out for clarification/rationale as to why this pt should not be routinely considered for a trauma TOR.

I was just curious about a possible contradiction in the Trauma TOR VSA Conditions/Contraindications. In the updated Trauma TOR Conditions it lists that a condtion as “Signs of life when fully extricated with the closest ED >30 min transport time away”. However in the following contraindications it lists “Signs of life at any time since fully extricated medical contact” as contraindicated for the TOR. My question is, in a scenario of a Trauma TOR eligble patient that has signs of life after full extrication, then becomes VSA, would the Trauma TOR apply or not? Would distance to the hospital come into play?

I need some clarification on the updates to the trauma arrest algorithm. With a patient with penetrating trauma in asystole with LTH less than 30 minutes are we to transport to the lead trauma hospital as we do with PEA? Also, if the lead trauma hospital is greater than 30 minutes, I am assuming we transport to the closest ED with both asystole and PEA with penetrating trauma.

So we had a call to a burn victim that was grossly charred, but was breathing. He started to deteriorate in transport but we made it to the hospital. I was wondering if he were to arrest if that would be a traumatic VSA, I know it’s not a blunt or penetrating trauma but it doesn’t make much sense as a medical cardiac arrest either. Also could a patient meet the standards for an obvious death after patient contact?

Can you TOR someone who is in PEA

What is the difference between medical and traumatic electrocution?

Question: I have a question regarding an MCI scenario. There is a total of 10 patients; 3 patients are dead from trauma and 7 patients are cleared off scene from other ambulances. You now have the 3 black tag patients left. Do we need to re-assess these patients and get trauma TOR for each one?

Question: I am a recent graduate and have a question regarding the traumatic VSA protocol. We arrive on scene to find 5 patients. Two are VSA and three are CTAS 2. The next ambulance is 5 min away. We use triage but after the three CTAS 2 patients are gone what do we do with the 2 VSA patients? Are we to do a Trauma TOR? Or is it just left at that point?