Question: This question is to clarify a point in the FBAO cardiac arrest protocol. If the airway obstruction is resolved after a first analysis, it is stated that the patient can then be treated per the medical cardiac arrest directive (presumably receiving three more analyses for a total of four). My question is regarding what to do if transport is in progress when the obstruction is removed- is transport continued with CPR only (as it is not a new arrest or a re-arrest after ROSC) or can the vehicle be stopped until the protocol is complete?

Question: Two questions which seem simple but as an educator I get asked all the time. 1.) FBAO VSA patient, you are unable to clear the airway, should we follow the BLS that indicates an oral airway should be inserted? 2.) Unwitnessed VSA, do we need to do a full two minutes of CPR or just CPR until we get the pads on.

Question: I recently had my recerts and have a question concerning Medical TOR. The way it was explained to me was that a TOR was a pronouncement. It was explained to me, if we receive a TOR in the back of the unit before the vehicle is put into drive, we have stay on scene with a patient until the coroner comes. Likewise if we received the TOR while the vehicle was in motion we could continue to the hospital. I really don’t understand the difference as to whether the vehicle is in gear or not. I was under the impression that if we receive a TOR, it is simply that, terminate resuscitation and continue transport (no lights and sirens) with no resuscitation. The decision on route would then be, do we go to the morgue or to the ER. I understand the delicacy of appearances and you may have to leave scene with lights and sirens but once away from the scene, judgment on activation of emergency signals would be up to the driver/crew. Could you elaborate some more on this?

My question concerning TOR is this. Is a patient deemed dead at the time of TOR or are they deemed dead when assessed either at the hospital by an ER physician or at the scene by the coroner?

Question: On medical VSA’s, as an IV certified PCP, if you have time and enough hands to start an IV, are you giving a fluid bolus? I realize when you get a ROSC you are doing a fluid bolus of 10ml/kg (if chest is clear), but while the patient is VSA, are you giving a bolus? Or are you starting a line, just running TKVO in preparation of getting a ROSC and then bolusing?

Question: I’m curious if it is recommended to take blood sugar readings on VSA patients? If a blood sugar is taken on a VSA patient, and the reading is < 4mmol/L (which may be quite common due to the sample being capillary and CPR not perfusing sugar to the extremities), do we treat with Glucagon or D50? What if we suspect the patient is VSA due to a diabetic event? Does the answer change whether I'm a PCP or an ACP? Thanks!

Question: Our medical cardiac arrest protocol states for pediatric patients consider initiating transportation following the first rhythm analysis that does not result in a defibrillation being delivered. My question is, “Until what age do we consider a patient a pediatric?. Thanks in advance.

Question: At a meeting with Dr. Lewell in the past, he stated that there is no time set for the administration of medication. Some medics are directed by their services to deliver the medication within 5 minutes and yet the Base Hospital directive asks to have the monitor on in 5 minutes. Medication cannot be delivered without the monitor being applied, so is it correct to say that the time limit is not 5 minutes, but ASAP after the monitor is applied?

Question: In a hypothermia patient, what is the reason behind the possibility of them going into A Fib?

Question: If a patient from, for example, a structure fire is VSA with severe 3rd degree burns to the majority of their body and asystolic upon arrival would this fall under a medical or trauma cardiac arrest protocol? I would assume there is a high likelihood that the cause of arrest is more asphyxial in nature from smoke and toxic fume inhalation so it would be a medical protocol. That being said would this patient also meet medical TOR protocol since the arrest is asphyxial in origin? In discussion there seems to be so many variables put forward that there is no general consensus on which protocol to follow. Assuming there is no associated blunt trauma (e.g. structural collapse or explosion) or any penetrating trauma (e.g. explosion or injury occurred prior to burns) and the only trauma is the burns themselves what’s the most advisable course of action to follow?

Question: As far as the TOR mandatory patch point goes: if we are able to relay to the BHP that we would like to transport as opposed to terminating (e.g. public place, family insists we do so etc.) then why not allow the discretion of the paramedic to dictate whether to spend the time actually doing the patch? Since the physician is relying on us to paint a picture of the scene and if the BHP will accept our interpretation of the events unfolding and most likely state to transport anyway, patching to get permission to initiate transport seems to be more of a delay than a benefit.

Question: With respect to the Medical TOR, can we leave a deceased patient with family members after the TOR has been granted? It does not state in our medical directive who we can leave the body with (I always presumed it would Police, a family doctor, Coroner, Supervisor, Nurse at Nursing Home / patients home, etc.). In the Deceased Patient Standards it does state under responsible person / unexpected death chart… family members would be acceptable. I would imagine it would depend on the situation at the scene and family members state of mind. If you and your partner are at the scene of a medical TOR and another call comes in down the street for a code 4 – VSA for example, can both crew members leave the scene and have family take over care of the body? I know you could do a first response with one crew member, but again, two would be optimal. If you were a Supervisor on scene taking over care for your crew, could you leave the pt in the care of family and do a first response? You are on scene with a patient who has met the Obvious Death Criteria, can you leave the patient with family members or do we wait for Police, Supervisor etc. to attend the scene?

Just wanting clarification on who would be the ‘responsible person’. If a Paramedic felt that family would meet the criteria for ‘responsible person’, could we have family take over custody of the deceased person for Medical TOR or Obvious Death Criteria providing scene was safe, family coping well, no suspicious events at scene, etc.?

Question: I was having a debate with another paramedic about the proper order of procedure in the following situation: You are en-route to the hospital, in the back of the ambulance alone with your patient, and they go VSA. You check for pulse and respirations and confirm VSA, update your partner, and ask them to pull over and help. While they are pulling over and moving to the back of the ambulance should you: a) begin chest compressions; or b) immediately apply defib pads and analyze?

Question: I have checked with a SWORBHP Educator and they did confirm that you cannot Medical TOR an OD but you can do Medical TOR on Drowning Hanging and Electrocution. There still seems to be doubt out in the field so I thought I would post so all could see answer

Question: With respect to the Medical Arrest Protocol, are we still to alternate giving Epi and Amio/Lido on the 2 minute mark since each are to be given Q4 minute? Or can we give them at the same time? What is preferred?

Question: This question is in regards to the TOR’s and calling BHP. Some paramedic services lack having a spare cell phone while the primary cell phone for a truck is “out for service”, missing etc. I have heard of some paramedics using their personal cell phones to call for the mandatory BHP patch for a pronouncement. I have spoken to Police and Crown Officials, and they have both stated that our personal phone can be submitted into evidence at an inquest or other matters, as this was the tool used to make that pronouncement (upon further investigation a paramedics credibility can be challenged as the court can see text messages, pictures, and phone calls placed on the personal phone). If our service fails to provide us with a cell phone for that shift for whatever reason, are we obligated to use our personal phone knowing it could be taking from us in an investigation for an unknown length of time? Would we document “no cell phone available” on the ACR?

Question: In regards to cardiac arrest secondary to drug overdose. A VSA in an instance where Cocaine and or Meth have been used in excess causing death. Would this fall under unusual circumstances and therefore be transported or would it follow a medical TOR and require a patch to base hospital?

Question: This is in regard to the Medical TOR protocol. If we’ve reached the mandatory patch point at three consecutive non-shockable analyses (and made the call to the BHP) and there is any sort of delay (meaning we’ve reached the fourth analysis), do we then transport? People are getting confused because some heard that they were to keep analyzing while they waited for the BHP to come on the line. That’s not how I perceived it. Regardless of any delay at any time, the protocol states that we only analyze a total of four times (unless you are an ERU) followed by CPR for the duration of the call, correct? People hear different things, and I just want clarification so that we can all be on the same page. Thanks

Question: If a patient is between ages 8-12 and is VSA, are we still using the lowest Joule setting?

Question: If you get a ROSC on scene, after one analyze, patient rearrests enroute, can we pull over and finish the protocol? One analyze or three?

Question: Since we’re now able to administer Epi for VSA Anaphylaxis, why are we not able to do so for Severe Asthma VSA?

Question: In the December 11, 2011 powerpoint on Termination of Resuscitation. The slide on page 37 states the Medical TOR applies to all medical VSA that are cardiac in nature and asphyxial in origin including hanging, drowning electrocution. The webinar from our recerts states Arrest thought to be non cardiac in origin, i.e. OD, Trauma, Hanging, Drowning are a contraindication to the TOR. Could you please clarify?

Question: I was just wondering in case Im asked by the Police Department… in a medical TOR, what physician signs the death certificate?

Question: In our recert course, we were told that ACPs must patch to the BHP after the third analysis (during a medical arrest). Why do we have to patch so early? Shouldn’t we patch after three rounds of epi?

Question: In regards to the new medical VSA directive: Would CO poisoning leading to VSA be considered an unusual circumstance? Thus performing one analysis and transporting would be acceptable?

Question: I see that it says consider NaCl bolus in the cardiac arrest standing order. In the past we gave a bolus for PEA as well as Rosc’s. Can you confirm the exact circumstances we are to give the bolus as I find there to be a lot of gray areas in our orders.

Question: The PCP Medical TOR says that I can “move the patient to the ambulance prior to initiating the TOR if family is not coping well or the arrest occurred in a public place”. What is an example of a public place? and if I move them to the ambulance and then get the TOR, is this now the place of death and I have to wait for the coroner to arrive?