Welcome to Ask MAC
Ask MAC is a tool aimed at providing paramedics with an opportunity to find question and answers related to the medical directives, challenging or unique calls, or other relevant topics for discussion.
All answers provided on Ask MAC have been reviewed by and reflect the opinions of the Medical Directors within the Southwest Ontario Regional Base Hospital Program (SWORBHP).
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- Acute Cardiogenic Pulmonary Edema
- Adult Intraosseous
- Analgesia
- Bronchoconstriction
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- Cardiogenic Shock
- Central Venous Access Device
- Combative Patient
- Continuous Positive Airway Pressure (CPAP)
- Croup
- Cyanide Exposure
- Endotracheal and Tracheostomy Suctioning and Reinsertion
- Hyperkalemia
- Hypoglycemia
- Intravenous and Fluid Therapy
- Medical Cardiac Arrest
- Moderate to Severe Allergic Reaction
- Nausea Vomiting
- Newborn Resuscitation
- Opioid Toxicity
- Orotracheal Intubation
- Pediatric Intraosseous
- Procedural Sedation
- Return of Spontaneous Circulation (ROSC)
- Seizure
- Supraglottic Airway
- Symptomatic Bradycardia
- Tachydysrhythmia
- Trauma Cardiac Arrest
Question: Our medical cardiac arrest protocol states for pediatric patients consider initiating transportation following the first rhythm analysis that does not result in a defibrillation being delivered. My question is, “Until what age do we consider a patient a pediatric?. Thanks in advance.
Published On: June 12, 2012Question: I was just wondering how CVAD access should be documented on the ACR? There is no specific code for CVAD. Is it ok to document using the Normal Saline code (345) and just specify that it was via CVAD in remarks? Should I always get blood when I aspirate? (I didnt but it seemed to flow well).
Published On: June 12, 2012Question: I have heard paramedics inquiring amongst fellow paramedics about the use of epi without a cardiac monitor applied or a full set of vitals when dealing with a patient who is suffering from anaphylaxis. My stance is that all meds (except ASA) require a full set of vitals and the cardiac monitor applied. Please clarify.
Published On: May 18, 2012Question: At a meeting with Dr. Lewell in the past, he stated that there is no time set for the administration of medication. Some medics are directed by their services to deliver the medication within 5 minutes and yet the Base Hospital directive asks to have the monitor on in 5 minutes. Medication cannot be delivered without the monitor being applied, so is it correct to say that the time limit is not 5 minutes, but ASAP after the monitor is applied?
Published On: May 18, 2012Question: With regards to the CPAP protocol, one contraindication is a tracheostomy. If this was just temporary and the tube had recently been removed, would CPAP be able to be administered?
Published On: April 24, 2012Question: In a hypothermia patient, what is the reason behind the possibility of them going into A Fib?
Published On: April 24, 2012Question: In a PCP crew with one of those PCP IV certified, should the PCP IV attend on all VSA’s? All chest pains with nitro use? It’s just that the IV directive is very vague and leaves it very open to interpretation. Thanks in advance!
Published On: April 24, 2012Question: ALS paramedics have directives as to when they must attend/start IV’s to give meds in various situations/bolus etc. The directive for starting an IV is for the “potential need” for an IV, administering meds or bolus. Are there specific times we should always attempt an IV if time permits? (pre arrest, post-ictal, chest pain with past nitro use etc?)
Published On: April 24, 2012Question: If a patient from, for example, a structure fire is VSA with severe 3rd degree burns to the majority of their body and asystolic upon arrival would this fall under a medical or trauma cardiac arrest protocol? I would assume there is a high likelihood that the cause of arrest is more asphyxial in nature from smoke and toxic fume inhalation so it would be a medical protocol. That being said would this patient also meet medical TOR protocol since the arrest is asphyxial in origin? In discussion there seems to be so many variables put forward that there is no general consensus on which protocol to follow. Assuming there is no associated blunt trauma (e.g. structural collapse or explosion) or any penetrating trauma (e.g. explosion or injury occurred prior to burns) and the only trauma is the burns themselves what’s the most advisable course of action to follow?
Published On: March 28, 2012Question: As far as the TOR mandatory patch point goes: if we are able to relay to the BHP that we would like to transport as opposed to terminating (e.g. public place, family insists we do so etc.) then why not allow the discretion of the paramedic to dictate whether to spend the time actually doing the patch? Since the physician is relying on us to paint a picture of the scene and if the BHP will accept our interpretation of the events unfolding and most likely state to transport anyway, patching to get permission to initiate transport seems to be more of a delay than a benefit.
Published On: March 28, 2012Question: I have a few questions about some of the omissions from these protocols that were in the old protocols. The first one is in the event chest pain resolves and re-occurs it is treated as a new episode and nitro protocol repeated. This isn’t stated in the new protocol so if this were to occur can we repeat although it isn’t stated? The other question is regarding the medical arrest protocol. No provision is made in regards to on scene ROSC and re-arresting patient in ambulance. The old protocol says we can pull over and analyze once then continue to receiving facility. With nothing in the new protocol do we follow the same format? Thank you.
Published On: March 28, 2012Question: With respect to the Medical TOR, can we leave a deceased patient with family members after the TOR has been granted? It does not state in our medical directive who we can leave the body with (I always presumed it would Police, a family doctor, Coroner, Supervisor, Nurse at Nursing Home / patients home, etc.). In the Deceased Patient Standards it does state under responsible person / unexpected death chart… family members would be acceptable. I would imagine it would depend on the situation at the scene and family members state of mind. If you and your partner are at the scene of a medical TOR and another call comes in down the street for a code 4 – VSA for example, can both crew members leave the scene and have family take over care of the body? I know you could do a first response with one crew member, but again, two would be optimal. If you were a Supervisor on scene taking over care for your crew, could you leave the pt in the care of family and do a first response? You are on scene with a patient who has met the Obvious Death Criteria, can you leave the patient with family members or do we wait for Police, Supervisor etc. to attend the scene? Just wanting clarification on who would be the ‘responsible person’. If a Paramedic felt that family would meet the criteria for ‘responsible person’, could we have family take over custody of the deceased person for Medical TOR or Obvious Death Criteria providing scene was safe, family coping well, no suspicious events at scene, etc.?
Published On: March 13, 2012Question: I was having a debate with another paramedic about the proper order of procedure in the following situation: You are en-route to the hospital, in the back of the ambulance alone with your patient, and they go VSA. You check for pulse and respirations and confirm VSA, update your partner, and ask them to pull over and help. While they are pulling over and moving to the back of the ambulance should you: a) begin chest compressions; or b) immediately apply defib pads and analyze?
Published On: March 1, 2012Question: I have checked with a SWORBHP Educator and they did confirm that you cannot Medical TOR an OD but you can do Medical TOR on Drowning Hanging and Electrocution. There still seems to be doubt out in the field so I thought I would post so all could see answer
Published On: March 1, 2012Question: With respect to the Medical Arrest Protocol, are we still to alternate giving Epi and Amio/Lido on the 2 minute mark since each are to be given Q4 minute? Or can we give them at the same time? What is preferred?
Published On: March 1, 2012Question: This question is in regards to the TOR’s and calling BHP. Some paramedic services lack having a spare cell phone while the primary cell phone for a truck is “out for service”, missing etc. I have heard of some paramedics using their personal cell phones to call for the mandatory BHP patch for a pronouncement. I have spoken to Police and Crown Officials, and they have both stated that our personal phone can be submitted into evidence at an inquest or other matters, as this was the tool used to make that pronouncement (upon further investigation a paramedics credibility can be challenged as the court can see text messages, pictures, and phone calls placed on the personal phone). If our service fails to provide us with a cell phone for that shift for whatever reason, are we obligated to use our personal phone knowing it could be taking from us in an investigation for an unknown length of time? Would we document “no cell phone available” on the ACR?
Published On: March 1, 2012Question: When is a patient no longer considered nitro naive? Issue: you have a patient that is suffering chest pain and qualifies for ischemic protocol. You establish a patient IV and give them nitro. The patient accepts the nitro without any adverse reactions and pressure does not fall out of protocol at any time. After your second dose of nitro you check the IV and discover its no longer patent and you have to discontinue it. You attempt your second IV and are unsuccessful. Nitro has been decreasing patient’s pain but they still have active chest pain. Can we still continue with nitro without an IV as the patient has already been given nitro and not had any reaction?
Published On: March 1, 2012Question: This question was addressed at the end of January but I’m still unclear on the answer. In our protocol is discusses DKA and the patch point for pts from 2 to 12 for obvious reasons to me. It does not discuss any patient greater than 12. In the past if pt was DKA and showing signs of dehydration we could do a 10ml/kg bolus, then it was changed so that we had to patch for this bolus. The previous question was weather or not we were doing boluses for adults and it was not addressed. There is no talk of it in our latest protocols. Can we go ahead and bolus an adult in DKA who is showing signs of dehydration without a patch or even with a patch?
Published On: March 1, 2012Question: In regards to cardiac arrest secondary to drug overdose. A VSA in an instance where Cocaine and or Meth have been used in excess causing death. Would this fall under unusual circumstances and therefore be transported or would it follow a medical TOR and require a patch to base hospital?
Published On: February 21, 2012Question: This is in regard to the Medical TOR protocol. If we’ve reached the mandatory patch point at three consecutive non-shockable analyses (and made the call to the BHP) and there is any sort of delay (meaning we’ve reached the fourth analysis), do we then transport? People are getting confused because some heard that they were to keep analyzing while they waited for the BHP to come on the line. That’s not how I perceived it. Regardless of any delay at any time, the protocol states that we only analyze a total of four times (unless you are an ERU) followed by CPR for the duration of the call, correct? People hear different things, and I just want clarification so that we can all be on the same page. Thanks
Published On: February 21, 2012Question: Why do we have a mandatory patch point for pediatric patients (> 2 but less than 12) with a blood sugar over 25 mmol/l and suspected to be in DKA for a fluid bolus but there is no patch point for adult patients.
Published On: February 21, 2012Question: For a patient with fluid building up in the lungs (recently having the same issue and having to have fluid drained via chest tube) due to a complication of CA, what is the best course of action? It wouldn’t seem that a bronchodilator wouldn’t be effective and since the fluid is of non-cardiogenic nature would nitro work?
Published On: February 15, 2012Question: If a patient is between ages 8-12 and is VSA, are we still using the lowest Joule setting?
Published On: February 15, 2012Question: If you get a ROSC on scene, after one analyze, patient rearrests enroute, can we pull over and finish the protocol? One analyze or three?
Published On: February 15, 2012Question: On our ROSC protocol, the ONLY route that we are allowed to give a fluid bolus/dopamine is via an IV. Please confirm that we are NOT allowed to do so via IO or CVAD? This does vary from the IV and Fluid Therapy protocol which allows us to do so.
Published On: February 15, 2012Question: Since we’re now able to administer Epi for VSA Anaphylaxis, why are we not able to do so for Severe Asthma VSA?
Published On: February 6, 2012Question: In the December 11, 2011 powerpoint on Termination of Resuscitation. The slide on page 37 states the Medical TOR applies to all medical VSA that are cardiac in nature and asphyxial in origin including hanging, drowning electrocution. The webinar from our recerts states Arrest thought to be non cardiac in origin, i.e. OD, Trauma, Hanging, Drowning are a contraindication to the TOR. Could you please clarify?
Published On: February 6, 2012Question: I was just wondering in case Im asked by the Police Department… in a medical TOR, what physician signs the death certificate?
Published On: February 6, 2012Question: If a patient presents with both chest pain and sudden onset stroke symptoms, can we still give all medications for cardiac ischemia protocol while doing stroke bypass?
Published On: February 6, 2012Question: In our recert course, we were told that ACPs must patch to the BHP after the third analysis (during a medical arrest). Why do we have to patch so early? Shouldn’t we patch after three rounds of epi?
Published On: January 31, 2012Question: In regards to the new medical VSA directive: Would CO poisoning leading to VSA be considered an unusual circumstance? Thus performing one analysis and transporting would be acceptable?
Published On: January 31, 2012Question: I see that it says consider NaCl bolus in the cardiac arrest standing order. In the past we gave a bolus for PEA as well as Rosc’s. Can you confirm the exact circumstances we are to give the bolus as I find there to be a lot of gray areas in our orders.
Published On: January 31, 2012Question: The PCP Medical TOR says that I can “move the patient to the ambulance prior to initiating the TOR if family is not coping well or the arrest occurred in a public place”. What is an example of a public place? and if I move them to the ambulance and then get the TOR, is this now the place of death and I have to wait for the coroner to arrive?
Published On: January 31, 2012Question: ROSC Protocol states bolus 10ml/kg if under 12 check at 100ml and over 12 check at 250. Cardiogenic Shock Protocol (includes ROSC) -states bolus 10ml/kg -if 2 to 18 check at 100ml and over 18 check at 250ml. One states the 12 to 18 range at 250ml but the other 2 to 18 at 100ml. Can you clear this up for me please?
Published On: January 31, 2012Question: Can you clarify a condition in the contraindications for nitro use protocols? Current contraindications listed under the protocol are self explanatory, where as one to me seems to be very vague. The one Im referring to is the use of a “Phosphodiesterase Inhibitors” within the previous 48 hours. They are many examples of this type of inhibitor (including caffeine) and it might reduce confusion if the specific and relevant ones were listed under the protocol specific to cardiac. For example, a patient who has had a cup of coffee prior to your arrival or 48 hours prior to for that matter has ingested a Phosphodiesterase Inhibitor. Under the current directive and the way it is written, could be argued that this patient is contraindicated to receive Nitro.
Published On: January 31, 2012Question: When treating a patient with suspected cardiac ischemia, should I acquire a 12-Lead ECG before giving nitro or ASA? If the patient is hypotensive, should I bolus at 20 ml/kg, or 10 ml/kg as per the cardiogenic shock directive? And how do I know if the patient has a right ventricular infarct? (Updated)
Published On: January 31, 2012Question: If I have a patient that appears to be in cardiogenic shock with a STEMI ECG should I be calling for a BH patch to have an order for aspirin after initiating an IV bolus?
Published On: January 31, 2012Question: My question is regarding fluid bolus for DKA. Past practice has been to initiate a BHP patch for direction to administer a fluid bolus. The most recent Provincial Protocol states that a patch is only necessary for DKA in patients under 12. Are we still required to patch for a fluid bolus for adults in DKA?
Published On: January 31, 2012Question: On page 11 of the new Medical Directives it states that vital signs have been kept constant throughout the directives and that any exceptions are clearly noted in each directive. Tachypnea is defined as 28 or > however, I noticed confusion amongst peers stating condition for CPAP was still at 24b/m or >. New protocol simply states tachypnea as the condition. Please clarify
Published On: January 19, 2012Question: Why was Lasix removed from the pre-hospital CHF/Pulmonary Edema protocol, when the first thing an ER Physician orders on arrival at the ER is Lasix?
Published On: January 19, 2012